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Politics: Right to bear arms?
JoeP250 Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:01:31 AM(UTC)
JoeP250

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This being a website dedicated to a beautiful killing machine, the Sig P250, I thought we would get the off topic posting started with a little 2nd Amendment rights discussion. With the recent supreme court decision to uphold a citizen's right to keep a deadly weapon for the purpose of self-defense, how do you guys/gals feel about the attacks on our 2nd amendment right? What is your interpretion of the amendment? Was it only intended for the militias or for all individuals? What would be the repercussions if the government decided to take away our guns which a very real possibility over the next few years...
Hawk Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:12:12 AM(UTC)
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Leave it to my boy Joe to start out with a DEEP discussion!!!
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rah45 Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:16:14 PM(UTC)
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Maybe time to open this back up now that the DC/Heller verdict was reached and now the Federal govt plans to negotiate with the UN about a worldwide disarmament treaty. Opinions?

My opinion is that any further intrusion of the federal government into our right to bear arms is unconstitutional and the American people should not stand for it. If they want to regulate our arms, they must change the 2nd Amendment. It does not say that they may regulate our firearms usage and the Constitution says that all powers not EXPLICITY given to the fed are reserved for the states or the people.

Oh, and also remember the issues about the "gunshow loophole" bullcrap and also the attempt to "stamp" ammo so they know who has what and how much.
Those who sacrifice a little freedom for a little security, deserve neither.

- A rough quote from Ben Franklin.
JerBla Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:57:11 AM(UTC)
JerBla

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Im sure if the gonvernment took away our 2nd rights there would be another "civil war". If it were to happen then IMO, other countries would see us as a weaker nation because normal ppl dont have a way to protect themsevles if we were to be invaded. You never want to have a fight on your own soil but if our guns were taken and ammo limited then i think there would be an attack. Thats what i think.
"Its not enough to kill him till you think hes dead, kill him till He thinks hes dead"
rah45 Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 9:40:00 AM(UTC)
rah45

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I guess that Georgians are the only ones qualified to post on this topic....

Civil war, in a sense of the government forcing citizens to give up their arms, would be justified as per our Constitution and also necessary to preserve freedom for ourselves and posterity, if history has taught us anything about government tendencies and "respect" for their "citizens".
Those who sacrifice a little freedom for a little security, deserve neither.

- A rough quote from Ben Franklin.
GrumpyBiker Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:49:40 AM(UTC)
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"The rights of the PEOPLE" ..... How can a Millita be used to protect "us the people" from Tyranny if the Gov. owns & runs the Millita ( if the Millita it is refering to is a States Guard) ?
WE the people ARE the millita it referes to!
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Ananael Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 05, 2010 11:24:57 AM(UTC)
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The Second Amendment gives each of us the right to self defense. Not just the defense of our lives, but also our liberty and right to rule ourselves as we see fit, and the authority, in law, to preserve that life, liberty, and way of life through lethal force against man or beast, should it be necessary. In order to assure my ability to do so, I am therefore allowed to own and carry any sort of tool I deem necessary and can afford to procure, this being a capitalistic society. That means I have a right to have access to a fire extinguisher, a knife, a pistol, a rifle, a handcuff key and a blowtorch should I need them, at any time and in any place, should it be the tool I need to stay alive and free. In order to deprive me of my right to any of those items, due process under law must be applied in each individual case, as explained in the rest of the Bill of Rights.
rah45 Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 06, 2010 5:37:30 AM(UTC)
rah45

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Ananael wrote:
I am therefore allowed to own and carry any sort of tool I deem necessary and can afford to procure, this being a capitalistic society.


I agree! I'm saving up for my own Abrams tank. Wink
Those who sacrifice a little freedom for a little security, deserve neither.

- A rough quote from Ben Franklin.
JerBla Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:58:37 PM(UTC)
JerBla

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There are several versions of the text of the Second Amendment, each with slight capitalization and punctuation differences, found in the official documents surrounding the adoption of the Bill of Rights. One version was passed by the Congress, which reads:

“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”

Another version is found in the copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, which had this capitalization and punctuation:

“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”

"Its not enough to kill him till you think hes dead, kill him till He thinks hes dead"
rah45 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 5:36:20 AM(UTC)
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JerBla wrote:
There are several versions of the text of the Second Amendment, each with slight capitalization and punctuation differences, found in the official documents surrounding the adoption of the Bill of Rights. One version was passed by the Congress, which reads:

“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”

Another version is found in the copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, which had this capitalization and punctuation:

“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”



Well, I've got an idea for the politicians: concentrate on the wordsand not the capitalization if the capitalization does not agree! For all they know, whoever made the copies could have screwed up, or vice versa, or, shockingly, the spelling may not have mattered. If proper nouns mattered so much to the Founding Fathers, I'm sure they would have written a book addressing it. I have never heard of one, so, at this moment, I'm voting for interpreting the words themselves. The words clearly state that the militia is necessary for security of a free state and that the people themselves have the right to bear arms. It does not say "only those people who are eligible for militia duty" are allowed to possess arms. It does not say that the people who are currently mustered for militia duty are allowed. It says "the people", and does not get any more specific. That is what it was left as, and considering the amount of effort it took to write these laws, I'm pretty sure that if they had wanted to be more specific that they would have been.
Those who sacrifice a little freedom for a little security, deserve neither.

- A rough quote from Ben Franklin.
JerBla Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 6:03:19 AM(UTC)
JerBla

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I agree, Im not an english major, I failed all my liturature classes. But anyway, I heard somewhere or read something about the way the writting was back then compaired to now. It had something to do with an Old English type of style. Puncuations and Capitalizations held different meanings. I can see where this would get confusing, but come on enough is enough. Make the desition that we have the right to arms and be done. How much longer does this have to go on?!!!!!!! Nowhere in there does it say you have to have them. So if you dont want them then dont get them. But dont make it harder for those that want the safty/security you get from owning one. I use my rifles for hunting, if they took them away then i wont be able to go hunting (no im not using a bow and arrow, that not my kind of thing) then their will be an over population of animals in the area. Anyway, Ive talked to others at my job about this and got some interesting opinions. The best was "we'll be able to keep firearms no problem. But it doesnt say anything about them taking or limiting ammo for those guns." I would have never thought of that.
"Its not enough to kill him till you think hes dead, kill him till He thinks hes dead"
rah45 Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, May 14, 2010 3:06:33 AM(UTC)
rah45

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JerBla wrote:
I agree, Im not an english major, I failed all my liturature classes. But anyway, I heard somewhere or read something about the way the writting was back then compaired to now. It had something to do with an Old English type of style. Puncuations and Capitalizations held different meanings. I can see where this would get confusing, but come on enough is enough. Make the desition that we have the right to arms and be done. How much longer does this have to go on?!!!!!!! Nowhere in there does it say you have to have them. So if you dont want them then dont get them. But dont make it harder for those that want the safty/security you get from owning one. I use my rifles for hunting, if they took them away then i wont be able to go hunting (no im not using a bow and arrow, that not my kind of thing) then their will be an over population of animals in the area. Anyway, Ive talked to others at my job about this and got some interesting opinions. The best was "we'll be able to keep firearms no problem. But it doesnt say anything about them taking or limiting ammo for those guns." I would have never thought of that.


In my opinion, anyone who starts to "read into" the Constitution like that is actively seeking to destroy this country. The CONUS is not open to extensive interpretation. It is not a living document, IMO. As written, it is perfectly capable of serving us for another thousand years if not eternity. Why? Because it only addresses basic needs and services in a broad sense, and that serves to accurately apply to the federal government for all time. Any specific requirements that apply to a specific time period for specific needs are supposed to be presided over by the STATES and the PEOPLE. You want to regulate ammunition/firearms? Go ahead! Do it via the state government. Let the states decide for themselves what their own personal firearms laws will be. This lets a more specific range of people decide for themselves what laws will best govern them.

Saying that "Oh, the 2A doesn't say anything about ammo" is just as stupid as saying that the freedom of speech doesn't apply to letters or to typing on the internet because they're not "speech" because you're not speaking. The Founders just assumed that people would know that the 2A included firearms as well as everything needed to ensure their proper function. If you restrict ammo, you may as well say that cleaning supplies or spare parts should be restricted, or that aftermarket accessories, scopes, red dot sights, ACOGs, night sights, etc. should be outlawed. It's ridiculous and stupid.

If you have that conversation with your co-workers again and they say that the CONUS is a "living document" or that it can be interpreted very specifically, then turn other amendments that they use every day around on them. Like I said, freedom of speech, specifically, doesn't say freedom of writing. I'm sure that there are other ways of twisting the other amendments. They just don't give a damn about the 2A because they either do not use it or they are conditioned to be sheeple. Either way, they are doing a disservice to their country, you and your children, and me and my family. They are also an embarrassment to us U.S. citizens who actually have a clue as to what our Constitution says and why the Bill of Rights was made.
Those who sacrifice a little freedom for a little security, deserve neither.

- A rough quote from Ben Franklin.
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