Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

3 Pages123>
80% FCU in the works (Sig P250)
80percenter Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 8:17:30 PM(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/9/2015(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: United States of America

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 3 post(s)
UPDATE:

Flat laser cuts samples arrived. Check it out: http://i.imgur.com/D3JWjKg.jpg

The project has gone from idea to plan to models and drawings to presentation to manufacturers and now to samples. For the trigger, hammer, and takedown lever from concept to actual molds. I am looking locally to get the trigger, hammer, and takedown levers cast. They will be in aluminum (but they don't hold much stress anyway. The receiver frame and trigger bar are 304 stainless. PLEASE NOTE this is not the form that we anticipate will be acceptable. This would be like a 50% receiver rather than an 80%. Depending, of course on the batfe's 2 cents.

Just wanted to share the photo.

____________________


I took inspiration from a reddit post a few months ago, which talked about home-building a p250 FCU. I have had a great design guy painstakingly recreate the design specs for the FCU receiver as well as the hammer, trigger, takedown lever, slide lever, trigger bar. The only remaining parts needed will be contained in the parts kit that Sig sells: http://store.sigsauer.co...arts-kit-p250c-9mm.html

I am trying to gauge the interest in this project before I spend the money to get an ATF letter (through a lawyer) and pay the manufacturers. Many people have talked about this idea, but as far as I know no one has actually done it. I now know why--this project took way more time and effort and money than I ever expected. I saw that there was at least one thread here, but it does not seem that the authors finished.

Am I barking up the wrong tree or is there interest? I am anticipating a price point of $125.00 (including the parts). As probably everyone on this forum knows, after completing the P250 FCU a Caliber X-Change kit would have to be purchased from Sig (or another authorized retailer) to create a working firearm. Sig designed a very cool modular unit, IMHO, but buying a pistol can be a real hurdle in some states. It is easier to buy an 80% or unfinished receiver in many places. Plus I think having spare parts is just a generally desirable thing. And those "2sum" kits can become 2 guns.

Am I crazy? Will this thing sell? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
3 users thanked 80percenter for this useful post.
bignish on 4/9/2015(UTC), mtnbiker012 on 5/7/2015(UTC), ontmark on 5/10/2015(UTC)
Cheap Shot Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 9:33:35 PM(UTC)
Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 9/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 205
Location: WI

Thanks: 42 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 29 post(s)
Would be nice to fill up some xchange kits and have complete pistols.

The price point seems good, depending on what is required to finish them.
cstone Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 10:50:38 PM(UTC)
cstone

Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 2/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 815
Location: Thornton, CO

Thanks: 24 times
Was thanked: 137 time(s) in 118 post(s)
What are you envisioning for the tools needed to finish an 80% FCU?

Bending from a flat, in the white? Need a mill or a home quality drill/dremel, maybe something in between. The hard chrome finish would need to be done after most of the bending/cutting, wouldn't it?

If you could source the springs and pins sold in the SIG kit you linked, same or higher quality, you could probably price them a bit higher than SIG, as they frequently seem to be "out of stock." I think there could be a market for customized grip frames for the manufacturer who can produce from quality polymer material.

What kind of licensing fee will SIG be asking for from any aftermarket manufacturer?

I like the concept. I am interested.
adepto super vestri ego
80percenter Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 5:35:56 PM(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/9/2015(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: United States of America

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Thanks to everyone for the PMs and posts. I was feeling a bit stressed over the project yesterday and it is nice to know that there is interest out there.

I don't have answers to all of the thoughtful questions posted. Here are the answers I do have: the frame will be cut from 304 Stainless Steel. I am awaiting delivery of a furnace and the frames will be tempered in-house. The kit will require some bending and some drilling. The exact amount of each will depend on the ATF's determination of where the gun/non-gun cutoff point is with regard to this project.

I am working on sourcing the springs and pins contained in the Sig P250 parts kit because they are in fact almost ALWAYS out of stock. I will try to have the pins and springs available so that the parts unavailability does not impede completion of the receiver kit. The design of the kit is based upon the idea that a person with no prior metalworking experience (like myself) can finish the receiver frame and build the FCU in an hour or two. The tools required would be a vise and a drill (although a drill press always helps when lining up your drilling). There will be no milling and no need for a milling machine. The kit will not require cnc-driven tools.

My proposed design went to the lawyer to be sent to the ATF today. Fingers crossed. I will post to the forum once the kits are available (probably 4-6 weeks). In the meantime, if anyone would like to be contacted directly when I have the first offering available you can PM me and I will add you to the list (I don't know if I am supposed to include my email on postings, but if you PM I will provide it).

Thank you again for the interest.
mtnbiker012 Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 5:58:47 PM(UTC)
mtnbiker012

Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 4/20/2013(UTC)
Posts: 196
Man
Location: Iowa City, Iowa

Thanks: 21 times
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
extremely interested in this - I too would luv to fill up some xchange kits - how soon til the 80% P320 FCU's are ready - lol
Sig Sauer P250C .22LR
Sig Sauer P250C/SC .380ACP
Sig Sauer P250F/C-TB/SC 9MM
Sig Sauer P250F/C/SC .357SIG/.40S&W
Sig Sauer P250F/C/SC .45ACP
timbermart Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 7:53:44 PM(UTC)
Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 6/17/2012(UTC)
Posts: 435

Thanks: 114 times
Was thanked: 59 time(s) in 51 post(s)
Keep us informed about the progress.
mu2bdriver Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:43:30 AM(UTC)
Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 3/29/2009(UTC)
Posts: 334

Thanks: 22 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 9 post(s)
I'm interested. Would be curious to see the finishing requirements. For $125 all in, I'm in for a springtime project.
80percenter Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:42:07 PM(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/9/2015(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: United States of America

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Progress Report...

I am taking delivery of an annealing furnace capable of producing "ambient temperatures of 1200 degrees Celsius" shortly. The furnace will allow the bending of the frame rails and the magwell "bulges" (for lack of a better term). It will also allow the kit to be properly tempered. Whether the kit will be tempered or not may depend on the real world effect on the kit's ability to bend after tempering.

With that in mind--and bearing in mind that the ATF approval may change my plan--the end user would need to bend the flat-ish unit and drill most of the holes. The bending jig will be developed after the federal approval comes through. The request for ATF determination has been started and, as soon as I can heat and bend in the the frame rails and bulges, it will be sent to them.

I patterned my design off of the ak-47 flats. Hopefully that means the ATF will determine that it is not, yet, a gun. More on this as it develops. Thanks to all for your interest and support.
4 users thanked 80percenter for this useful post.
mu2bdriver on 3/12/2015(UTC), timbermart on 3/13/2015(UTC), watermelon on 3/19/2015(UTC), mtnbiker012 on 5/7/2015(UTC)
ontmark Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, March 15, 2015 8:20:02 PM(UTC)
ontmark

Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 12/14/2014(UTC)
Posts: 243
Man
Location: California

Thanks: 48 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 23 post(s)
I would be in for one

Thanks
/dev/p250 Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2015 11:47:53 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/2013(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Raleigh, NC

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I'm in. Got lots of grips and slides laying around doing nothing... ;-)
timbermart Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2015 1:32:25 PM(UTC)
Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 6/17/2012(UTC)
Posts: 435

Thanks: 114 times
Was thanked: 59 time(s) in 51 post(s)
+1
mtnbiker012 Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 07, 2015 7:02:56 PM(UTC)
mtnbiker012

Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 4/20/2013(UTC)
Posts: 196
Man
Location: Iowa City, Iowa

Thanks: 21 times
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
Still very interested in this - I'm stocking up on takedown levers - I can buy my own short triggers - $125 doesn't sound bad but if I round up some of my own parts hopefully we can work a deal
Sig Sauer P250C .22LR
Sig Sauer P250C/SC .380ACP
Sig Sauer P250F/C-TB/SC 9MM
Sig Sauer P250F/C/SC .357SIG/.40S&W
Sig Sauer P250F/C/SC .45ACP
ontmark Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2015 2:12:36 PM(UTC)
ontmark

Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 12/14/2014(UTC)
Posts: 243
Man
Location: California

Thanks: 48 times
Was thanked: 27 time(s) in 23 post(s)
Thanks for the update and your hard work
bignish Offline
#14 Posted : Sunday, May 24, 2015 8:20:47 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/26/2011(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: USA

Thanks: 1 times
Great work. Had the same idea a while ago but wasn't able to make much progress. Hope it all works out. I'l definitely be buying kits from you.
Newshawk Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2015 11:24:43 AM(UTC)
Newshawk

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 94
Man
Location: Green Country, Oklahoma

Thanks: 14 times
Was thanked: 14 time(s) in 9 post(s)
This does sound interesting. I could be persuaded to pick up one or two. Will this be a serialized device that we'll need to do a FFL transfer to obtain or something that will not be considered a firearm until we assemble it?
"Everyone who is not an American, drop your gun!"
Sheriff Isaac, "Doctor Who: A Town Called Mercy"
mu2bdriver Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:08:31 AM(UTC)
Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 3/29/2009(UTC)
Posts: 334

Thanks: 22 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 9 post(s)
80% items are not firearms and therefore require no serial or FFL to transfer between manufacturer to buyer. What you do with a piece of metal is up to you. It's just as if you bent a piece of sheetmetal yourself and decided to build a firearm out of it.
cstone Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2015 6:40:18 PM(UTC)
cstone

Rank: Uber Member

Joined: 2/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 815
Location: Thornton, CO

Thanks: 24 times
Was thanked: 137 time(s) in 118 post(s)
The devilish detail is getting a decision letter from BATFE on what constitutes 80% or less of a finished firearm.

Given the bureaucracy and BATFE's considerable talents for making the seemingly simple into Byzantine complexity, I admire anyone willing to go through the process. Not having millions of dollars and a team of machinists with experience in doing all of the actual work for BATFE makes this a Herculean task.

My best wishes are with 80percenter and his efforts. BigGrin
adepto super vestri ego
arm3dc1t1z3n Offline
#18 Posted : Monday, July 20, 2015 10:49:32 PM(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/18/2015(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: United States

Do you have any ambition to reduce the trigger travel by redesigning the trigger bar? I'd buy a new FCU in a heart beat if this were done. Otherwise, it's just another ordinary P250.
submoagroup Offline
#19 Posted : Sunday, August 02, 2015 8:51:53 PM(UTC)
submoagroup

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/2014(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: land of enchantment

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Very interesting! I would certainly be a player in this, although I've got to say that I don't think that bending after hardening is a possibility.
3 P250 FCU's
40sc
40c
40f
357sigf
DrDenby Offline
#20 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2015 1:13:20 AM(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 8/2/2015(UTC)
Posts: 9

submoagroup;40364 wrote:
Very interesting! I would certainly be a player in this, although I've got to say that I don't think that bending after hardening is a possibility.
,

damn, i wish i could remember the terms and such, but from what i have heard, that is not only possible, but if done right makes it stronger.

Doc
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
3 Pages123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.